Episode 32: How do I get in front of my target audience?
Welcome to a behind-the-scenes look at the latest episode of the Bitch and Brainstorm podcast! In this episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with Mardeen, a commercial sign maker with over 41 years of experience in the industry. She shared her journey and the challenges she faces in breaking into a niche market of working as a signage consultant with architects. Let’s dive into Mardeen's insightful story and the advice we uncovered during our brainstorming session.
Understanding the Niche
Mardeen's expertise lies in creating braille signs for new construction, a field that requires precision and thoroughness. While it's a niche that Mardeen is very passionate about, the challenge lies in reaching architects and communicating the immense value her services provide. Her vision is to streamline the signage process by acting as a consultant, working directly with architects to identify sign needs before plans go out to bid. This innovative approach could save both time and costs during the construction bidding process, a realization that many architects have yet to grasp.
The Hurdles
The process of connecting with architects has proven difficult for Mardeen. Oftentimes, calls end at a dead end where decision-makers are unreachable. Despite several architects expressing interest, the typical response is that they are unable to make a final decision. This is a significant barrier that she needs to overcome to grow her consultancy.
Strategies for Success
During our discussion, we came up with several strategies to help Mardeen reach her goals:
Personal Connections and Networking: Attend industry networking events specifically geared towards the construction sector. By mingling with subcontractors, interior designers, and contractors, who are already integrated into the business, Mardeen can create valuable introductions that could eventually reach the architects.
Building a Referral Network: Establishing relationships with professionals at different levels could yield referrals. Often, assistants or mid-level management can lead to the contact she seeks.
Offer Introductory Projects: To showcase her value, Mardeen could offer discounted services on initial projects. Doing so could help her gather testimonials and build a portfolio that demonstrates the time and cost efficiency of her services.
Enhanced Online Presence: Though Mardeen is skeptical about reaching her target audience through social media, enhancing her website and optimizing it with SEO can’t hurt. It ensures potential clients might stumble across her services online.
Consider Events and Speaking Engagements: Speaking at architect-focused conferences and appearing on industry podcasts could make Mardeen known as a thought leader and advocate for efficient signage planning. It’s about addressing the architects’ pain points directly and publically.
Looking Ahead
The journey of finding the right audience is a long game, and for Mardeen, it requires persistence and creativity. By entering rooms she's never been in and establishing herself as a problem solver, Mardeen has the potential to redefine her industry. During the podcast, we talked about carving out a time frame of about six months to actively engage and network, keeping faith in the slow build approach.
This process and the lessons learned can be applied to anyone looking to pivot, penetrate new markets, or simply introduce innovative solutions. Mardeen's story is a testament to the power of brainstorming and tenacity.
Thanks for joining us on the Bitch and Brainstorm podcast journey! We hope Mardeen's strategies inspire you to think outside the norm and tackle the challenges in your field. Stay tuned for more engaging discussions and insightful advice in future episodes! Until next time.
00:00 Welcome to the Bitch and Brainstorm Podcast
00:32 Meet Mardeen: The Commercial Sign Maker
02:26 Identifying the Problem: Reaching Architects
03:40 Brainstorming Solutions: Marketing Strategies
04:49 Understanding the Sign Schedule Process
16:42 Networking and Building Connections
31:56 Exploring New Avenues: Conferences and Podcasts
36:20 Final Thoughts and Next Steps
Mardeen Gordon, is the owner of SignAge & ArtWorks in the Bay Are of California. She said "I would like to reach architects to offer consulting services to review their plans for ADA sign compliance prior to putting them out to bid. I have made individual phone calls and found some interest, but nobody has actually engaged. I need to find a way of reaching the wider architecture community, possibly through creating YouTube content, being a guest on podcasts or speaking at webinars or conferences."
Tune in to see what ideas we came up to help her accomplish this goal.
Connect with Mardeen: https://sa-aw.com/
Transcript:
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Bitch and Brainstorm podcast. I'm your host Elaine Turso, Elaine the Brain, and I'm here with Mardeen who is going to tell us more about herself and what we're going to do is we are going to give her some time to tell us what is not working and then we are going to brainstorm ideas.
So maybe In this episode, you will hear something that you will be able to use in your own business. So Mardeen, tell everybody a little about yourself and then tell us what is keeping you stuck. Thank you. Well, I have been a commercial sign maker for 41 years and I've done everything from, small one off businesses to big corporations making signs for all sorts of things.
And in that process, I have found a niche that that I would like to fill which is very specific in working, doing braille signs for new construction. We often work with architects to, to figure out what types of signs they need and all this. All the, quantities of all the different types of signs and when you're looking at a building that's, 26 stories in downtown San Francisco, there can be thousands of those signs and figuring out how many of each sign can take hours.
Going through floor plans and, counting up all the doors and what's in that room and what needs to be on the sign. So, what I want to do is offer to the architects to go through their plans as a consultant rather than a contractor doing a bid for the project. And. Identify all of those signs and create a sign schedule, basically, that they can then put out to the bid for all the contractors.
So, every contractor will be bidding on the same. and same type of signs, and that will streamline the bidding process for the architect, for the contractors, everyone, and make sure that their signs are correct, that they have the right signs and the right number of signs for the building. The problem that I'm coming up against is Reaching the architects and making them understand what I'm offering and what benefit it will have for them.
So what I've done so far is I've called several architects and talk to whoever answers the phone, basically. So it's, a cold call and I've had. Several of them interested, but the end of the conversation is usually, well, I'm not a partner. I'm not the person who makes this decision.
So let me, present this to the partners and then we'll call you back or you can call back at another time. And as you can imagine, that's a very time consuming process, and so far I have not had anyone actually give me a project to, to do the sign schedule for. So, I'm thinking, maybe there's another way to reach out to a larger group.
And get them to understand, what I'm offering and then come back to me and, I can do a project and build that clientele. So, all right, so I have a couple of things coming through one idea that I came that just popped through was back in the day. Way back in the day, I used to work in property management.
Ah. Okay. So, I worked in public housing, Section 8, and tax credit properties. And a lot of times what happened was there were companies that really wanted our business and they would drop off a basket of goodies. And I'm wondering, could you put together some signs, some examples And drop it off with maybe some smarties.
Maybe you would be so smart, right? To make it fun and, eye catching or whatever. But like creating examples, something that they can tangibly hold in their hands. And maybe with something that is explaining how this how you can be of service and how you can help them fill this need that some maybe they don't even realize that it's a need.
Yeah, I think that's the key is that, they don't really realize. What it means for the, because there's so many levels of separation away from the architect to the sign contractor, the way the projects work, the architect is hired by the building owner, and they, develop the plans and and then they put it out to bid in a general, a bunch of general contractors will bid on the project and to get their bids together.
They have to get. Contra bids from all the subcontractors. So the signed contractors are actually bidding to a general contractor who may or may not actually get the contract. And what, there's like, there are, Things that are involved in every project obviously, they have to build the steel, they have to do the flooring, the windows, the doors, the really basic stuff to build a building, and there's always a window schedule and a door schedule in every set of plans.
So that the window contractors can go, Oh, I need, this number of this type of window and this number of this type of window and they could put their bid together really easily. They almost never have a sign schedule. And so for each general, each sign contractor has to spend, it's like 8 to 12 hours.
To put together their bids and what the architect doesn't realize is that all of those sign contractors are padding their bid to cover that time that they're spending to, just to do the bid and if they had a sign schedule with all the signs and the quantities already there, their bid would take way less time.
And the general contractor then has to take all the bids from the all the subcontractors and compare them and see, do they all have the same number of windows the same number of doors and they get, 3 or 4 bids from sign contractors and they're all different. So then they have to go back to all the sign contractors and say why do you have only six exit signs there are 12 exits on this building, and so that takes time for the general contractor and the subcontractors.
And the architects don't understand that. They don't realize that, they're getting higher cost bids and the general contractors are spending a lot more time doing all of that. So I think, your suggestion is a good one, but I think maybe. It doesn't make sense to, to like deliver a, a physical sample.
'cause the architects all know what a bi, a braille sign looks like. . And they're not choosing this the, the sign contractor. So then, who is choosing the signed contractor then? The general contractors. Okay. So then, do you then, like, at what point, right, are you, do you want to be a part of the process?
At what part of it through the journey? I actually want to be working with the architects. And I don't necessarily even want to provide the signs, the physical signs for the building. What I want to do is be a consultant with the architects. And I want them to hire me before they even put the plans out to bid.
Just to create the set, the portion of the plans that explains everything about the signs. And why is this so important to you? That's a really good question. Because I have worked for a several signed companies that bid on these projects and I know how long it takes and how frustrating it is.
To spend eight hours on a bid and then get nothing, not get paid at all for it because you don't get the contract and also to go through that process after the fact, where, you do all the drawings and you submit them and the architect says, well, what about. This, why didn't you have these signs in your bid in your contract and you have to go through a whole process of getting a change order and adding your, the cost of designing five more signs and whatever it is, which is also part of the benefit to the architect if they can have a complete drawing set with all the signs they need for the building.
the first time and they don't have to go through weeks of back and forth with every subcontractor, that would save them time too. So, I can make my service very affordable in comparison to the waste of time and money that they put into fixing it after the fact. So then where are you going to make and how will you generate revenue from that will be, or will you be the one that wants to also make the signs?
I know you said you don't want to. Like it's not a requirement, but is that the ultimate goal? Yeah, I mean, I would also bid on the projects, when they come, because there's like bid boards that you can enter, and see what projects are coming up and submit a bid for them.
And I could do that too. But what I would actually, What would work best for me would be if an architect says, here's a set of plans. There's a, 10 story building that needs all the Braille signs and they pay me per floor, basically. Or, based on the size of the project to create the sign schedule and the message schedule and the list of all the signs and quantities and all of that.
And then I don't care if I bid on that project or not. I've been paid for, doing the. The consulting and my company's name would be listed on the plans as the sign consultant, which would generate more business from other architects and also give my company more credence if I bid on the project because I designed the sign schedule.
Yeah. Do you have a Builders Association in your area? Yes. Are you a part of that? I am not a member, but I am, there's a, what, the main bid board that I participate in is Building Connected, which is similar to a Builders Association. They're, they basically, manage all of the bids. Huh.
And there's others that, I could also visit and find more projects to bid on. How about in the fair housing space, like the fact that you have a product that, any type of subsidized housing is required to have, especially public housing, anything like that has to have There are requirements, and I'm wondering if you have any connections in that space.
Yeah any public housing or bid, projects like that you have to be registered with the Department of Industrial Relations, and just even to bid on a project like that. So I do have that DIR number, and I can bid on public projects. One comment that I've had from an architect was that they were very interested in what I was offering and they were about to send me a set of plans, they were the best option I, or best opportunity I had.
And they said, oh, but this is a public project. And I can't, Reveal this to you because you might bid on it. Okay. So, so there may be feeling like it's a conflict of interest. Yes. Okay. Yep. So could you propose like, if you're like, I really want To be a consultant and not necessarily, I don't really care about the signs.
Could you assure them and say, I'd be happy to sign a non disclosure agreement or something like that or to keep it separated? Yeah. To just be the consultant and not compete on the project. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I said that at the time. And I think they just, They said, well, this is the only one that I have right now.
And it's just too complicated for me to, come up with a NDA and all of that for you to be able to do this. So let's think about it another on another project, basically. Okay. So, but then what do they do then? So, what is their solution if they're not going to use you? What did he do instead?
Because he still needs it done. Right. They just rely on the sign contractors to all do their own takeoffs and figure out, what signs they're putting in their bid. So that's the key. That's the turning point right there is that the architects don't understand what is, what the problem is with the way things are done right now.
Another thing that I've come up against is that there are sign companies, design firms, that Offer the same similar kind of service, but they're looking at it as like a high end design for a library or a something that's a really, a beautiful building, basically, and they want the signs to fit the concept.
quality hotel or something. Yeah, exactly. So they go to the architects and they're a consultant on the project, but they're designing, brass and, stainless steel and, and they want to make this really beautiful sign program. That's not what I'm offering. And that's what the architects, most of them, when I've, Approach them about it.
They're like, Oh, we don't need a sign design. We don't need, a custom design for this building. And I have to say, I just want to give you the basic braille signs that you need, I just want to tell you how many of them you want, you need for the building to, Fit code. And so that it can pass inspection when you're done.
I don't want to make it fancy. I'm not, offering expensive design or anything. I just want the, I was just want to give you the basics of what you need to for the building. Yeah. So again, having examples I think would be really important, and maybe This is an in person sort of conversation where you can schedule an appointment and say, I want to talk with so and so.
Schedule a meeting, it can be over the phone, it can be via Zoom, I don't have to go traveling all over the place to architects, and making appointments and meeting them in person. I just really need to reach the people that can make that decision and can understand, the benefit of what I'm offering.
Yeah. That's where I'm coming up against a the barrier, just to reaching the right person. Yeah. Are there, do you do any networking? Yes and there are, uh,
There's one company that does, um, it's like networking events for construction. And they've, they have, various companies will host the event and it's an in person event and they invite contractors and subcontractors and, people who do interior design and, that kind of stuff.
Yeah. And I've thought about, attending a couple of those. Highly encouraged. Yeah. Those are where your people are. I'm really curious, though, if any architects are attending any of those. I would, and I would bring samples with you. Yeah. And show them off. Yeah, yeah. And at least if I don't, if an architect isn't there, maybe a contractor who works with architects, they're the ones that are all connected.
Yeah. Sometimes you got to start at the bottom in order to get to the top. Yeah. Cause it is a lot of times who, that's very true. Right. It's about who, and so if you can approach it as the thing that you said that really stood out to me was. saving them time. And if you can show them and demonstrate how much time you saved somebody and maybe I hate to say it, but you may have to do like a trial run and do it for, like a beta almost, how we do a beta program and you charge less than you normally would in order to get feedback and testimonials and things like that.
But having somebody experience what you are offering, go through the process and being able to have them say, wow, this really did. Right? So if you can translate that, time into dollars, how much time are you saving and how much money is that? Say, are you saving on time to make it worth their while, but they don't know what they don't know.
Right. And so, I love the idea of you going to a networking specifically in that industry, because it feels like if that's where they are, you may be if they're a super high tech architect firm, they, how many assistants do they have? Right, right. And so going to that architect may be out of reach, but the assistants are more in reach and probably act as a buffer.
Between them and the clients, so, but I think there's real value in, in attending those events. And I would say you're going to need to attend several. And really, like, and schedule one on ones. And say, I would love to have coffee. I'd love to get to know you more about what you do and make it about them.
Cause people love to talk about themselves, right? People love to talk about themselves. So, go there with the intention of I'm going to connect with five people from this meeting and schedule a scheduled time while you were there, get out your calendars and say when is good for you? I would love to, just get to know your business a little bit better.
And see, maybe there's potential for collaboration or referral opportunities. You could say, I have a lot of clients that could really use your services and it would be helpful for me to know more about what you do and how you help people so that I can refer you qualified leads.
And if you make it about them getting more clients, Well, in that conversation, they will likely reciprocate and say, tell me more about what you do and say, well, this is what I do. Yeah. I work with architects to help them with their science schedule and getting off. And we'll, Oh, tell me more. Like, what is that?
I've never heard of that before. Like whatever it is. And then you could say, do you know any buddy in an architect that Do you, who do you work with? I would love an introduction. Yeah. And I think that may be the strategy. And I would say, if you made it your goal and said, I'm going to commit six months.
I'm going to, I'm going to go to one every single time. I'm going to meet with five people every single time for six months. And if you don't have at least one out of there, that is a universe telling you to look elsewhere. This is not the right, this is, you got to give it the old college try, right?
But six months before you either come up against all of the brick walls and you realize that this is a niche that is, you can't break through. Yeah. Or along the way, you may find something else or meet somebody that has a completely different idea that you never thought of before. You just never know what will come out of that.
But I think it's a matter of putting yourself in the room get, force yourself to sit at that table and that could definitely be a way to do that. Yeah, that's the side doors to get in and meet the people I need to meet. Yeah, I would also be considering again, starting at the bottom, right?
Starting at the bottom. So who are the designers? Not necessarily the architect, but who's the one that's designing and doing all that because again, like have being a, like a vendor on their list, because people are going to go to them probably before an architect, they're going to go to them and say, because they may think of it as decor.
Right. And so it could just be meeting with designers, meeting with subcontractors, meeting with contractors and really getting yourself in entwined in all of it. Even people that do painting, even people that do plumbing, even people that do, HVAC and all of the things. Yeah. It's who they all know people in the building industry because.
They're in the industry. Yeah. Right. So who do they work with? Who do they know, like, and trust? And you become somebody that they know, like, and trust. And then you start sharing referrals or whatever. And Now you have built a network of people that when they have that thing, they come to you because you will be the top of mind.
Yeah. But I'm going to tell you right now this is the long game. There is no overnight success here. No, this is the long game. This is going to be a covert strategy. Intentional. Strategy. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. So, the thing that stuck out to me there was or the first thing was offering them something at a discount, basically and there is one product that would fit that bill.
There are several elements to a signed schedule. And one thing that is in almost every set of plans is. A page that just shows all the types of signs exit route, stair signs, room IDs, and it's basically just a, like a detail, the specifications. And a lot of times they have a boilerplate page that has only like the bathrooms and the exit signs and that's pretty much it.
And sometimes it doesn't even have dimensions or materials or colors or anything. It's just a really basic drawing that says these are the signs that we need. And I could create a comprehensive page like that for there's basically one story and multi story buildings that have different requirements.
So I could make a, a page for one story buildings and one for multi story buildings and just modify it slightly for each project as required and that I could give them free. Yeah, I'm more talking about Getting a consultant under your belt in order to get Testimonial in order to get someone to vouch for you, right?
Not necessarily that you have to give away free product This is more time like you're discounting your time not necessarily Like I don't want you to spend money in order to Get a job, right? Yeah, it's like I need someone to test my theory on I want to Like go through the process from start to finish And it may help you have a better understanding.
And if this is a win situation for somebody, but if you could do it and say I haven't done it yet. I want to be able to do it for more people. And I need to experience it firsthand in order to make sure that I understand fully. Like if you use it in that kind of way, where they're helping you help them help me help you situation.
Yeah, I think the way I would approach it would be, if you hire me on a small project and, I have a rate schedule, I have a, a PDF that I can send them that basically breaks it all down, here's what I'm offering and here's how much it would cost. To have me do the detail page and the sign schedule and the, message schedule, all these things. And I'd say if you send me a project and let me do the whole thing for you I will discount whatever, these pages 50 percent or, something like that just to, for the first time that I work with you.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In exchange for. In exchange for? In exchange for what do they call it? A testimonial? Yes! An email, something that you, they are giving you a stamp of approval. Yep. That you did an amazing job that you can use on your website, all the places. Yep. And being able to, yeah.
And are you, is your website and all that stuff, are you talking about this? Are you putting it out there in SEO and social media and marketing? Not a whole lot. Yeah, because I think that, that is not where I'm going to reach architects through my website or social media or any of that.
We'll still put it there. Okay. Because here's the thing, you don't know that. Yeah. And they the architect themselves, but the assistant might be Googling. Right. Okay. So I wouldn't discount putting that stuff out there and just because it's about who they know. It's about somebody could stumble on your website.
You just never know somebody that you connected with. Yeah, and they see that and they go, Oh, I forgot about that. I know this architect that I went to college with and he just got a job at this new firm. And he can impress his bosses by offering this. Yeah. Right. And I think it's also okay to, if you have an email list and one of the things that I do that I've done successfully for the, and I will be getting ready to do it again here soon, is that every year around the end of the year, I will send out an email to people that I have connected with before.
So these are people that have scheduled time on my calendar and I send out like a Here's like 10 things I did this year that were really fun, right? Since the last time we spoke, last year it was, I went to Paris, right? And so it just, listed some of the things, my daughter got engaged, like, just personal things.
And then I invited them to reconnect. Like, I would love to have a second date. I would love to connect again. Here's my calendar link if you are interested. And I keep stats because I was like, I always want to know. So I had like 322 reach outs. This was this was at, I did this December of, probably December of last year.
I re, I reached out to 322 people. This was 2022. This is 2022. And December 2022. And I had so many people schedule a demo. My software or they were interested in other services just because we reconnected. And so what you could do is utilize a similar thing. Send an email out to your list.
This is what's going on. And by the way, I'm also helping architects that a that, that. So it's just a matter of telling people. I would love to and say, I would love to connect with architects, interior decorators and designers anybody contractors, like, just put it in there because you never know where it'll go, you never know where it would go, right?
And utilize the people that already know, like, and trust you. Because now it makes it easier for them to refer you because they already know, like, and trust you. They are vouching for you when they send somebody your website. They're vouching for you when they connect you together and say, hey, the two of you should definitely connect.
Yeah. You can't buy that. No, that's waiting gold. Yeah. That is. Yeah. Yes. That's where it's at for real. Yeah I've always found that to be true. And and I've always found that a personal phone call is the best way to connect with anyone. Which is why the networking also works cause you're making a personal connection and find out things that you would not ever find out through social media or any other way.
Exactly. Exactly. Okay, so let's talk about moving forward. So what are you do you feel like you have a clear path of what you're going to do next? Yeah, I think I need to improve my website and social media. information that's available. I will plan to attend the next networking event with the con, contractors.
And yes. The thing that I, that we haven't really talked about and I would still like to get your feedback on is doing events like there are architect conferences. That they, they have and there are several podcasts put on by architects for architects. I would like to be a speaker, go to their conferences and talk about this.
And so you could also be a vendor and showcase all of the things, right? You have to make it. Like, what do they not know about ADA compliance? Right. What do they not know? What do they miss when it comes to ADA compliance? So if you were to, I think, start If you have ever prepared a one sheet or for a podcast so a one sheet is essentially, you can Google podcast one sheet and you'll see some great examples.
You can make it in Canva, right? But basically, A one sheet is give me the gist of who you are and where, what you're an expert in and reaching out to podcast hosts or their assistant or whatever. And the things that podcasters love. is when you prove that you are a listener. So it could be, I really loved your episode about this and I would love to add to that conversation.
So what are they going to hear from you that they're not hearing from anyone else? And how can you put a spin on it where it's some sort of how to, or the things that you're missing, the things you're not considering, that sort of thing but creates a Title that is catchy and even though you speak about it one time on one podcast, does it mean that you can't go do it on others?
Right. Right. Because you really want it to be when someone Googles how to blank that they're going to come across your episode. Yeah. Right. Okay. So you could even, I mean, You could even pull up chat GPT and say, if I wanted to educate people around this, what would people Google in order to find this answer, huh?
That is the thing that title, like, think about it when you create when someone makes a when you go searching for a video on YouTube, what are you typing in how to blank? Well, that needs to be the title of the video. in order to, for it to pop up, right? Like you gotta, how, that how to do whatever, that needs to become the thing that you talk about everywhere, all day, every day.
Yeah.
Okay. Okay. And I have a connection that I can send you of a gal who helps. People get on podcasts. She's like a booking agent. Oh, she will help you get on podcasts that are related to your niche. And there we go like that. So happy to connect connection. I need. Yep. Yeah. So, but you're going to need to have these kind of like things prepared so that she can try to help you get booked on those appropriate podcasts.
yeah. . Okay. . Yeah. And then those conferences and events. If there are speaking, applications or whatever, like, and reaching out to the event organizer and, hey, I have a different spin I'd like to offer. Yeah. Yep. A little niche that nobody thinks about. Right. Till the end.
Right. Right. The sign makers are always the last ones in the building and the last to be. Right. They're not the first, they're not the first thing you think about. No. No. No. But you can't find the building without a sign. Right. Right. And when there's an earthquake, you want to know where the exits are.
Especially when you live in San Francisco. Yep. Come on. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So. I'm going to make a note here to connect you with my podcast agent. Friend and then
okay.
All right. So how do you feel about that? I like that. Yeah, I appreciate that very much. Okay. All right. So do you feel like you have, do you feel like you got some clarity? Yes. Yeah. Helped a lot to refine my focus. Yeah. I have some things that I hadn't thought of before. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Good. All right.
So, it was really good to see you again. Yeah. I know it's been a while since we've connected. So, super glad I was able to help you out today. I do get your email, your newsletter and always read it. Cause you have some really useful information in there all the time. Thank you. I do love it when I'm able to I get, I really get giddy when people reply and they're like, Oh my God, how, stop calling me out or something like that.
I'm like, I'm doing it with love. I don't mean to call you out personally, but I'm doing it with love. You recognize yourself in here. Yes. So, awesome. Well, it was, again, lovely to see you, and I hope you have a super amazing holiday. And enjoy the California San Francisco weather. We're a little cloudy and dreary today.
Right now it's pretty nice. Is it? Yeah, it's a sunny day in the middle of a bunch of rainstorms. Yeah, we're right in the middle of all the rain right now. So lovely. It'll be fine. We need the rain. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. All right, everybody. Have a super great day. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next time on the Bitch and Brainstorm podcast.
Thank you, Elaine.
